EP51 - Embracing Potential with Caroline Labouchere

Do you believe in the power of potential? What if embracing it and stepping out of your comfort zone could lead to incredible opportunities? Today's episode with Caroline Labouchere is a treasure trove of insights about seizing life's transformative moments. We chat about everything from luck and preparedness to the importance of saying yes to uncomfortable situations. Our conversation uncovers the striking correlation between confidence, good fortune, and welcoming the unexpected.

But there's more to our conversation than personal development. Caroline takes us on an intimate journey into her perspectives on familial and cultural dynamics. We explore the global celebration of birthdays and their crucial role in shaping a child's self-worth. There's also a deep dive into the realm of traditional marriages, the challenges women face and the uplifting power of a supportive sisterhood.

Our journey doesn't stop there. We're also whisked away to Caroline's life in Dubai, exploring the melting pot of cultures and the city's evolving conversation on mental health. More personal stories unfold as we discuss the trials and tribulations of marriage and how adversity, like job loss, can be a catalyst for change and self-discovery. And to wrap up our enlightening dialogue, we candidly talk about menopause and how spouses can empathetically navigate these life-changing conversations. So, join us as we conclude with a fun game reflecting on our enriching conversation with Caroline Labouchere.

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Chapters

• 0:46 Unleashing Potential and Taking Charge
• 11:41 Challenges and Support for Women
• 20:05 Life in Dubai
• 29:52 Respect and Overcoming Challenges in Marriage
• 38:06 Understanding Menopause and Emotional Support

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:46

Welcome

Speaker 2 0:50

to the fail forward podcast where Dan and Adnan peel back the onion on our guest stories and on each other, all in an effort to change the narrative of failure. Enjoy the show. Welcome back to the fail forward pod with Adnan and Dan. Dan is out. So it's Adnan. And I have the honor of spending some time today with Caroline Lavoucher. How's it going, Caroline?

Speaker 1 1:12

Said that beautifully. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Great. Good. I'm sorry not to meet them.

Speaker 2 1:20

No worries. He's here in Spirit and he is super super excited for this according as well.

Speaker 1 1:25

Good. Well, it's suddenly to you again. How long have we known each other?

Speaker 2 1:29

I would say in passing at least a decade, Wow.

Speaker 1 1:34

Makes me feel very old. And yes, because you were a university student.

Speaker 2 1:39

Correct. Yeah. And I think the first time we got to chat and meet was at the gym when I started my own gym journey or fitness journey ten years ago

Speaker 1 1:47

-- Right. -- at run club.

Speaker 2 1:49

At the wrong club. Correct? Yeah. And I remember David being there on a bike and you

Speaker 1 1:54

-- Absolutely. -- shouting out to us,

Speaker 2 1:59

That was a that was a good time.

Speaker 1 2:00

It was a good time.

Speaker 2 2:01

Well, it's it's beautiful to kind of see how both of us have flourished and come back together ten years later. Yes. So Caroline, you are leading in a variety of spaces in fashion, in health and wellness, in travel, and in a variety of other things I probably forgot to mention. The core concept behind a lot of the things you do and the things you say and believe in, and I think these are two things that I noticed. One is unleash your potential and second thing is take charge of your life or yourself. I've been fascinated by the like, the mental picture that people have as they go through building their own brand and themselves and, generally, the the spirit of entrepreneurship. It kind of almost flows from an uninformed optimism to an uninformed pessimism and ultimately to some form of uninformed positive outlook of what they're doing. I'm curious to understand what the word potential has meant for you and how it's changed over time.

Speaker 1 3:07

I have no idea what's gonna happen tomorrow and that's what keeps me excited because I have no idea what email I'm gonna get what opportunity I'm going to get. No idea and I'm open to everything. Mhmm. And that is what is exciting knowing that there is so much out there to do people to meet and I I have no idea. I I don't have anything set. No agenda. Mhmm. It's just all opening up in front of me.

Speaker 2 3:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1 3:42

I love that.

Speaker 2 3:44

That's great. Now not everyone gets the same amount, maybe more, maybe less of opportunities on a given day. It can't all just be entirely luck. I'm curious where where does luck fall into it? Where does preparedness fall into it? What gets you to a point where opportunity comes at your door on a given day?

Speaker 1 4:09

I think in the beginning, it was saying yes to things that make you feel uncomfortable. It's putting yourself out there. And for example, when I was I was gonna say when I was married today, but I'm still up to thirty two years.

Speaker 2 4:23

Don't let that slip over

Speaker 1 4:26

thirty two years in August. But I used to always want to be with him, whatever I did. I would never go out in the evening by myself. I rarely didn't did anything by myself. I certainly wouldn't travel by myself. And learning that I am able as long as he packs for me. This is very good at packing, and I'm very bad at packing. I can do go anywhere. But it takes a leap of faith in yourself to say, I can do this. But it is far easier to stay at home and say, but I don't have to.

Speaker 2 5:08

Mhmm.

Speaker 1 5:09

And and so I think it's believing in yourself and also wanting more for life, more than sitting at home and waiting for an opportunity. It's it's being on the internet, it's going to functions that you don't necessarily know anyone at and being in that room where you're feeling alone, but actually going up to people and introducing yourself and shoulders back, I can do this. Yeah. You've just you've got to there were two choices, aren't there? There would get out there and scare yourself and do it or stay at home and don't.

Speaker 2 5:47

Do you have a voice in your head that you help that helps you, you know, take those risky things? Do you tell

Speaker 1 5:52

yourself David? David is the voice in your head. Yes. Do it, babe. Can't you can do it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 5:59

That's awesome.

Speaker 1 6:01

Yeah. He has a lot of confidence. Send me more more than I do in myself, I think. Yeah. Unlucky. There we go luck again.

Speaker 2 6:10

Right? There there's so much there's so much that we attribute or ultimately we should attribute to luck. But my philosophy in certain areas of my life is that luck follows and touches everybody. But it is up to you to be prepared, ready, and willing to say yes when the option becomes.

Speaker 1 6:29

Yes. Exactly. Yeah. You you you have to say yes. Mhmm. And put yourself in those awkward moments, the uncomfortable situations I have been to to events where I've stood there and tried to make conversation with people and it just hasn't worked out and I -- Yeah. -- gone home. But

Speaker 2 6:52

But it is

Speaker 1 6:53

You gotta keep doing it again. Mhmm.

Speaker 2 6:55

It's it's more like statistics. Right? If x percentage of a large number is successful, you'll get more opportunity. And

Speaker 1 7:02

also, you were seen whether you made conversation with people or made connection, you were still seen. Mhmm. As long as you had your shoulders back, you went in there like it going to carpool. Yeah. I might have gray hair, and I might be forty eight that.

Speaker 2 7:19

Yeah. I still go super confident at Harper, and I still don't know what I'm doing there. Yes. So kudos to you for that. But yeah, it's it's it's a fascinating concept we're already talking about. But I wanna actually go back to the time that you almost spent in a shadow, in a shadow of, let's say, your husband. Right? All the different travels and things you were on, did that that length of time being in someone shadow, did that create certain habits and certain things that were hard to unchanged yourself from?

Speaker 1 7:55

Absolutely. It it it's easier to be in somebody's shadow. It's easier to follow than to lead. And that's the way that I was brought up. Although I'm a Leo, so I should be a leader. I also being in the military, it's not not my job to lead. David was it was his job. I married him, and he already had that job. So it wasn't for me to change anything. I was there to do the job as a wife of. So that was my job. Mhmm. And I don't I wasn't that good at it. I think I'd probably be better at it now because I'm much more confident now and much braver now. Than I was because you have to stand up and talk talk in front of the wives and you have to organize events for them and things. I took them poll dancing So that would -- Oh, wow. -- something to do is the Colonel's life. But I guess that was the edge that I had but still didn't follow through. So it was sort of a reaching out of my using my own identity, but then going back into the shadow. So I guess maybe, as I say, that The flame has been lit inside me. So I think it it was always everybody has a flame inside them or something smoldering. And sometimes it ignites and that's the person that you would have been if you were not the follower or the groomed person. All the way through life.

Speaker 2 9:41

Yeah. Has it has it been a challenge? Or like, what has the dynamic been having you start to lead your own life and, you know, even for David as being more if in certain moments a supporter and a champion or a few versus just purely the leader of the family of the unit.

Speaker 1 9:58

I think it's pressure off him because I'm not needing I'm not as needy. As I was. So I think it's much like, it's easier for him as long as I've cooked up before, but more like about So he's just going to eat too snappy.

Speaker 2 10:17

Has he got better on timing though in the evening? Has he come back on time? Is the food left home?

Speaker 1 10:23

He rarely comes back on time and rarely tells me what time he's gonna be home. It depends how well he's exercising where he's at exercising who he's exercising with. So, no, he doesn't. And I very often want to send her a message saying dinner is in the dog, but Why break the habit of a lifetime? So he is.

Speaker 2 10:42

Yeah. We discussed this on the call as well earlier, I'd love to understand what are the the common patterns you see across some of the women you speak with and the challenges they're facing. And feel free to be as specific as, you know, you're willing to to share.

Challenges and Support for Women

Speaker 1 11:02

Not knowing what their passion is. Because I think that very often women are pushed down so much. Not in any aggressive way, not in an abusive way, just because they're the mother of. They're putting everyone first, so they don't come anywhere near the top. They're they're below holding everybody up. So it's knowing that you are as important as they are. And that's relearning everything that's ever been that that you have learned to be by the way people treat you. For example, how many mothers, I mean, everyone's going to tell me, me, me, me, me, but how many mothers get a birthday cake? So many women don't get a birthday cake. And I'm thinking, what are you teaching your kids? Your birthday doesn't matter? Because who's gonna buy the birthday cake for the mom?

Speaker 2 11:59

The mom usually buys but the mom usually buys the birthday cake

Speaker 1 12:03

Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But unless of our own birthday cake, no one else is gonna buy it for me. Yeah. So what is that teaching your kids? David, we were living in India. Max was six months old. We had a cook. We had people living in the house looking after us, which was in the best one of the best years of our lives. I didn't get a birthday cake. See, David, it wasn't up to me to go to the cook and say, please, can have a birthday cake, David. My birthday it's not a surprise. My birthday is the same date every year.

Speaker 2 12:40

Yeah. And it's less about the cake. It's more about

Speaker 1 12:43

-- The thought. --

Speaker 2 12:43

the thought intention. Yeah.

Speaker 1 12:45

Yeah. Because he has a birthday cake cake every year. Do you have a birthday cake every year?

Speaker 2 12:51

Yeah.

Speaker 1 12:51

Who gets it?

Speaker 2 12:53

Mom or friend or so. Yeah. Yeah. So someone who actively

Speaker 1 12:56

-- Yeah. -- thinks about it. --

Speaker 2 12:58

thinks about it and -- Yeah.

Speaker 1 12:59

--

Speaker 2 12:59

yeah, wants to show me that, hey, today you're number one, so to speak.

Speaker 1 13:03

Yes. But not many mummies, ones, number one. But we have to look after ourselves. That's the most important thing. And -- Yeah. -- make sure that we are teaching our children and also teaching our husbands to a certain extent that we are our own identity. Yes. We are people.

Speaker 2 13:25

Yeah. I wanna share something kind of that I also see as a challenge within my own culture in relation to that. Like, as I start spending time with and in my life that I see as someone I want to potentially marry, this whole interesting dynamic comes about between the the way that past generations think and the way the future generations think about what marriage means. And there are definitely set roles in society of where what women should be in a more traditional marriage and a traditional culture. And while that is not necessarily bad for the unit overall, It may not be ideally what the what the woman in the relationship wants.

Speaker 1 14:09

So does she know what she wants?

Speaker 2 14:12

That's a that's a very very fair point because if you impose these cultural rules on to a marriage before it even happens, there is no room for the woman to even go through that exploration. Mhmm. Personally, I'm the last six to seven months have been an exploration of who I want to be, what I want to do, what I see my future as. But in many ways, most women are spending their time thinking, alright, who's the person I'm going to marry? And how am I gonna take care of the family and kids?

Speaker 1 14:40

Yes. And then maybe if you have a career, how am I gonna keep my career? Yeah. And then when I have children, how am I gonna keep my career? I want to do this. Then they go through menopause, then they have anxiety because all of these hormones are going berserk. Can I now continue? Yeah. It's like everything is against you. And unless you have people around you, and I often say that it takes a village to raise a child, but it takes a unit of women talking to each other to help each other through these times. And fifty, sixty year old women can really help and support younger women. So don't put us out to pasture and think that you don't need us. You do because we've been through that stuff. Yeah. And Keep asking questions.

Speaker 2 15:33

Definitely. In speaking to other women who who share the the same journey that you've been on, and it sounds like a lot of women are going through. I see you both as, you know, a leader and a speaker, but also a network builder. Because a lot of these women, they feel like they're alone.

Speaker 1 15:50

Exactly. You are so right. They do. They they write to me and I get so many DMs I have a highlight on my Instagram of menopause doctors all around the world. I don't have that many on there. I'm trying to grow it If somebody messaged me and says, I live in Texas, do you know a menopause doctor there? I'll put it out on a story, find a doctor, and I'll add it to that list. Because where do you start? You know, you you do feel alone. Yeah. And we can all help each other and support each other. I think also that there's less competitiveness as you get older because you hopefully, are learning or becoming that person. Mhmm. The grown up. Yeah. And and therefore, you don't need to compete because you know yourself better.

Speaker 2 16:45

Yeah. And hopefully, at least the way I see it, as you grow, you kind of develop some sort of unit or base that you'd come from, be it your family, your friend group, your career, that makes you not want to try to be like someone else because you have this thing that's now uniquely yours.

Speaker 1 17:04

Yes. Yeah. That is true. But we're still learning.

Speaker 2 17:09

We're still learning.

Speaker 1 17:10

Yeah. I think the stops.

Speaker 2 17:13

I think as as I grow older and older, you almost become much more aware of the things you don't know and that leads you to become much, much, more humble. Have do you feel that it You

Speaker 1 17:26

don't have to know everything. You don't have to be an expert in everything. Yeah. That learning that also. You find the people who are expert. Mhmm. And they can help you and you all grow together.

Speaker 2 17:39

Who are some of the people that have helped you outside of, let's say, the core family unit?

Speaker 1 17:44

Under doctors that I meet, I work with King's College Hospital and meet their doctors when they come in. Many from England and talk to them about issues that women go through men as well. I take David Long and he gets his health check and getting an angiogram, for example, knowing that women when they have a heart attack, they might have a headache or a backache. They wouldn't have that, you know, when a person grabs their left arm. Yeah. And you're like, oh my god, they're gonna have a heart attack. Women don't do that. Women don't have that. Mhmm. So I love talking to doctors and learning a lot. I'm not next, but in any field, but I know an expert.

Speaker 2 18:29

Yeah. Yeah. You do a really great job of finding people and allowing them to share their stories.

Speaker 1 18:34

And people message me and say, oh, you've got to meet this person. So I'll go on to Instagram and send her a message and say, oh my gosh, you were amazing. I need to speak to you. You need to spread the word. Mhmm. Fascinating.

Speaker 2 18:50

Have you have you ever had criticism for the work you're doing? Has that ever come up?

Speaker 1 18:58

Only for people who don't know me and don't necessarily follow me. So there'll be somebody saying, oh, you wear too much makeup. Well, if you did follow me, you see that on a daily basis, I don't wear makeup. Yes. In that picture, I was wearing too much makeup because I had been working with a makeup artist. So it's generally people who don't know me. Yeah. And if you give me a chance, oh, show you to real me. Yeah. But I I I'm so forgetful that I can't pretend to be anything else. It's that I'd say also about using a filter. I don't use a filter because I would forget what filter I used last time. So, yeah, no filters.

Speaker 2 19:39

Yeah. No. And I and I think to to be never criticized means you're just trying to be liked and wanted by everybody. Right?

Speaker 1 19:48

You can't be like Yeah. I mean, I don't like everybody.

Speaker 2 19:51

It's a fair point.

Speaker 1 19:52

So, you know, you do suspend it spend the time with the people that you like and they like you. Because that are the people who will help keep you up.

Life in Dubai

Speaker 2 20:02

Yeah. Tell me about what's next, the next one, two years. Not not a not not a plan, but just

Speaker 1 20:12

Well, I don't have any plans at Staying

Speaker 2 20:14

You you do have a vision board. Right?

Speaker 1 20:16

I do have a vision board. Yes. We would like to own a place in London.

Speaker 2 20:22

Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 20:22

That is on the vision board. So that is a goal that hopefully we wanted to buy in London during COVID. But it just was insanely expensive. So we ended up buying here after living here for twelve years. So we bought a house here last year and sense of peace. The sense of security, we have been married, as I said, for thirty two years in all August, and we have never owned or own home.

Speaker 2 20:53

Wow.

Speaker 1 20:53

I know. That's pretty weird.

Speaker 2 20:56

We we we are sad to see you leave ranches though, but super super happy to

Speaker 1 21:00

see me had washman house the other day --

Speaker 2 21:03

Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 21:03

-- and they picked up her bags. And she said, Do I recognize you? And he said, yes. I was your sincere sincere dick. I didn't alright. Been

Speaker 2 21:11

wrong. Yes. Yeah. It was such a small world.

Speaker 1 21:14

It is. It is But I quite like that. Yeah. Like, I in fact, I love to buy. I love it probably now more than I have and the more travel I do. I love coming home and my dogs are here.

Speaker 2 21:28

Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:29

Yeah. My own home. Love it.

Speaker 2 21:34

I'm I'm not actually sure what question I wanna ask you, but I'm just personally fascinated about your take on what makes Dubai unique and special to you in terms of like the people maybe versus London and all the other places also you spend time at?

Speaker 1 21:47

The people I couldn't tell you what nationality my friends are? I think that is something really big that's here. If you said where do most of your friends come from? There is no answer to that. Yeah. Hey, I don't know where most of them come from. But they're from everywhere around the world. And we're all in the same boat here -- Yeah. -- going through the same issues. So I think that's probably the best thing -- Yeah. -- that we are a melting pot. Mhmm. What else? I I just love how forward thinking that a session during during COVID the country was looked after -- Mhmm. -- more than the people, and it thrived, and it is thriving, whereas the countries that were we're looking after their people are not a country or in trouble. Yeah. So I think everything that's done here is just on the right way.

Speaker 2 22:57

Yeah. And there's there's this beautiful thing at least for me coming into Dubai after what nine years back is there's a conversation about mental health going on. And that was something that, you know, uninformed me in the past would have never expected Dubai to have.

Speaker 1 23:18

Right. Personal conversation.

Speaker 2 23:20

Personal conversation is the right way to put it. Right? Conversations about the mind, about personal struggles because it's a place that for better or for worse, generally likes to put out a positive, a beautiful, and a prosperous image of itself

Speaker 1 23:37

-- You're absolutely. --

Speaker 2 23:38

to the world.

Speaker 1 23:39

Yes. Yeah. When I got here twelve years ago, I took myself off my happy pills. I call them happy pills. And I thought This is it. We're living in a sunny country. David was in the military here. We had a five bedroom house. We had a swimming pool. Why would I need happy pills? And I cried. I just kept crying. Couldn't stop crying. And I I went to the doctor and I went back on the pills. And I've been on the medicines -- Mhmm. -- because I need them. Yeah. And they work. But it it it is a conversation that really you're so right now. It's it is really being talked about. Mhmm. And for a country that always wants to be positive, it's it is --

Speaker 2 24:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1 24:32

-- good that it's noticing.

Speaker 2 24:34

Yeah. And I think it will be a draw for people to come here because my I don't know if you felt this, but my conversations with people all around the word about Dubai's you know, I I love the place and I'd love to be a part of it, but at times it feels fake. And the morris and the morris.

Speaker 1 24:54

Say that. But it isn't fake. It is what it is. Yeah. It is. And it's blooming good at being what it is.

Speaker 2 25:05

That's fair.

Speaker 1 25:05

It isn't it knows how to move a seven lane highway overnight. In whatever company you're doing. But you're driving on the hang on a second. We weren't here yesterday, and you realized that they moved Shakeside Road. Do you remember when they were you here when they did?

Speaker 2 25:22

The one in the center right when they were bringing the creek the waterway through. Yeah?

Speaker 1 25:25

They literally moved seven lanes over. It would take how many years would it take in the other country to do

Speaker 2 25:30

that? Yeah. It's it's beautiful to see I mean, on the other side of you know, playing playing devil's advocate on it. It's like the fact that things actually get done here. Yes. And coming from the US, two hundred thousand people who hate each other or England have to all agree on something which rarely happens.

Speaker 1 25:49

Yes. It doesn't have then if decisions made, it's gonna take four years to take it to actually make it happen. Uh-huh. Even after the decision decision has been made, and then it wasn't the right decision. And it's gonna take another four years to to change it. Whereas here, something can be changed tomorrow, today. Yeah. Like like free parking on a Sunday went from Friday to Sunday just like that.

Speaker 2 26:15

Yeah. Yeah. I do. I do. I mean, there's a lot of these things I remember in passing because you've you've spent in last nine years here and seen everything whereas A lot of it, I'm relearning as I'm back. Right?

Speaker 1 26:29

There is a fake side.

Speaker 2 26:32

Yep.

Speaker 1 26:32

I think it's becoming less though. Oh, actually

Speaker 2 26:36

so much though. Yeah.

Speaker 1 26:37

I mean, the the fake side from the from the cosmetic point of view I think there was less there's still a lot of cosmetic surgery, but I see less of the same. Yeah. Everybody looked the same and there's

Speaker 2 26:53

There are a variety of I wouldn't even say pockets, but there are segments of society, off which what exactly you're talking about is there, but it's one of many.

Speaker 1 27:03

Yes.

Speaker 2 27:03

And one thing that I love that I've developed in my own mind is So I initially used to live in Bordeaux, right by the creek where the Abras and the Old Sup was. And I I was young, I yearned to get out of there because it's noisy, it's old, it's dirty, and we live in a

Speaker 1 27:22

Different place. It's like a different country.

Speaker 2 27:24

Exactly. And those those words are not necessarily objectively bad words. That's how I felt then. And now living ranches, in ranches, I really do love it. But as a runner and as a person that like really enjoys discovering cities, I am always drawn back to that point of the city which represents a very it represents an entirely different city and way of doing things.

Speaker 1 27:46

Yes. The Dubai, the Greek half marathon. Was my favorite --

Speaker 2 27:51

Yes.

Speaker 1 27:52

-- marathon. Because you would run and you'd smell fish and you'd see all the fishermen and then you'd see the boats and you'd see people doing yoga. I mean, it was the first time I did it. Mhmm. I wasn't concentrating on running at all. I was just looking around. They saw a photoshoot up on a on a balcony going on. I kept seeing the flash and there was a ride standing on a balcony and just it is a beast for the eyes, though, Dubai. Yeah. Yeah. Really is. And it's a great running

Speaker 2 28:22

It's great. Yeah. And that I think that's the one of the only races in Dubai that is a run that's made by runners, four runners.

Speaker 1 28:32

Those curves are big though.

Speaker 2 28:34

Yeah. That's a fair point.

Speaker 1 28:35

Yeah. Keep big the curves. If you're running along me, do I really have to lift my leg out?

Speaker 2 28:40

I know that that's actually part of, you know, weeding the people out, actually. It it was funny. Last year, we we organized the timing systems for the race.

Speaker 1 28:49

Right.

Speaker 2 28:50

And on the one that I was manning, a woman slipped up in cutter cutter knee, so I totally get where you're coming from. It's just it's It's a tough one for sure.

Speaker 1 28:59

The entire legs, so those those curves, I mean, that's a great great race.

Respect and Overcoming Challenges in Marriage

Speaker 2 29:04

Yeah. I wanna touch on something that David spoke about at the podcast we did with him and would love to see if we can elaborate on it for the audience, but suffISHed a little bit more for me. He talked about how you and him make a deliberate effort to build and grow and maintain your relationship over time. And he he mentioned that it's very easy to grow apart when you have the challenges of life, moving and all the work and career related aspect, and then most importantly, raising the kids. How what are the different habits? I wouldn't even say strategies, but really things you do that have allowed you to flourish and kind of keep like those just beautiful moments you have both on and off camera together.

Speaker 1 29:52

Did he mention he was away for a lot of their childhood? Did he mention that?

Speaker 2 29:58

He seems to just put that off a little bit of the side. I get there.

Speaker 1 30:01

So having been in the army, he would go off. Mimi was two weeks old when he went off for ten months. So she hardly recognized him when he came home. So he was away a lot when they were little then they went boarding school because we were moving a lot.

Speaker 2 30:15

I'm so sorry. That shouldn't

Speaker 1 30:19

We were moving a lot all over the world, and it wasn't fair to keep moving them because they making friends and they're not wanting to leave them. And I know what that feels like because I did the thing. Mhmm. I love David very much and I like him and I think that is key actually liking the person because love can become a habit, I think. Mhmm. It's very easy being a normal relationship and just going with it, accepting it the way it is because it's always been like that. Yeah. And you do grow. So it's easy to grow in different directions, especially when one person has a hobby, you know, David has a sporting thing.

Speaker 2 31:05

Yeah. Robbie would be putting it politely.

Speaker 1 31:08

He goes so he goes off for hours and I've been I I was I I don't know. He just would go away. He goes away for hours. He get I never seen him in the morning. He gets up at two or three in the morning --

Speaker 2 31:22

Yeah.

Speaker 1 31:22

-- especially during the summer. And he's not there when I wake up. Oh, I love it when he is, the the one night and maybe ten days, the one morning in ten days and they're bringing me a mug of coffee and just -- Yes. -- that's the highlight of my day, having a cup of coffee embedded. Mhmm. Love it. What is the most important thing? I think it's respecting each other, and I did lose respect for David when he lost his job. And I remember having that feeling of of powerlessness, and I married him with a job. Mhmm. And I thought he would always have a job he was in the military. You don't get fired from military unless you do a really something really bad. And we came out here and all the Brits were fired on that one day. On a Tuesday. Oh, wow. And he had just had his contract renewed, but that is something that Dubai is able to do. The other country is able to do. Literally all found on the Sunday because something of something that happened in London. So there tends to be sometimes a knee jerk reaction. And they were all tired. And that meant we were homeless. I wanted to go home, just get out of dodge, and David said no, we're staying. And he had already booked his flight to go to Hawaii.

Speaker 2 33:04

For Connor?

Speaker 1 33:05

Yes. The world championships. And I didn't think he should go because I want him to be at home looking for a job not going off to Hawaii when I'm staying in an empty apartment.

Speaker 2 33:19

Okay. You would say no.

Speaker 1 33:22

I was angry and disappointed. I was incredibly selfish.

Speaker 2 33:28

And how how many years another relationship where the marriage was this?

Speaker 1 33:32

This was here five, six years ago, something like that. Yeah. So So we moved out of ranches and we dogs at the people carrying out as we we sold pretty much everything. But the things that we kept, we would dogset for people and we take them with us including our mattress for God's sake. I don't quite know why we kept on mattress, but we did. But it came in useful when we moved to the empty apartment because we stepped on the mattress on the floor. Yeah. And Mimi, we're still with us. So she's sleeping on the sun lounge. Why we kept the sun lounge? The dogs are sleeping in a suitcase. Have one dog one half, one dog in the other half. And I was angry with life. And I remember thinking that I didn't respect him and that there was no coming back from it.

Speaker 2 34:30

Yeah. So coming coming back from respecting him or coming back from the stage.

Speaker 1 34:35

From disrespect.

Speaker 2 34:37

Oh, come sorry. Coming back from disrespect.

Speaker 1 34:39

Lost that. In a relationship and thinking then it then it must be over.

Speaker 2 34:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1 34:48

But thank goodness. I realized that only because of somebody who said to me. You need to start thinking about other people yourself but other people. Yeah. You need to step up because he can't. He is incapable of stepping up right now. It's not his time. It's your time. I said, how can I do that? I don't have a job? I mean, I had a part time job working at Jess. As a school receptionist, but not a money making job.

Speaker 2 35:27

Yeah. Not an entire family unit supported Jeremy.

Speaker 1 35:29

Exactly how and I never have had that. I wasn't brought up to have a career. And so that was terrifying and and I was thinking I was not able to do that. But the realization that I need to get to take control of myself and the way I was thinking and not just pull me, which was exactly what I was doing. Paul David. You know, how does he feel?

Speaker 2 35:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1 36:03

And very slowly, I think it did it let some more of those embers inside of me and made me braver and allowed me to start this journey. And I think that's what that's how it all began really. So being right down at the bottom and thinking, I I like this down here. Yeah. We've gotta start climbing our way, and we are better together at doing that than than ourselves.

Speaker 2 36:36

It's it's interesting how you've spent a lot of time Like you said, certain nights crying and feeling bad for yourself.

Speaker 1 36:43

Yes.

Speaker 2 36:44

But if you look at the full spectrum now of happy to sad or best to worst, You were more than likely at some point, yes, on the bottom end of the average, but it wasn't there wasn't enough motivation to really push you up. But that specific situation with David losing his job and everything getting getting to whirlwind was literally you being pressed against the bottom. Yes. So In many ways, it sounds like that was necessary.

Speaker 1 37:09

Yes. I believe it was. Yeah. It was it was retrospectively a good thing. I don't want it to happen again.

Speaker 2 37:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1 37:22

It was a good thing for our relationship too because also relationships can become stale. It's so easy just to exist instead of living.

Speaker 2 37:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1 37:34

And we are both living and we're not in each other's pockets anymore.

Speaker 2 37:44

These are these are very like, everything of this is so interesting to me because as a twenty eight year old hearing a lot of these things, gives me the tools hopefully that I can use in my relation to make it as

Speaker 1 37:56

be such a good husband.

Understanding Menopause and Emotional Support

Speaker 2 37:58

Alright. I'm I'm gonna send this podcast to my girlfriend. I just Perfect. But then she's also gonna keep me accountable. She's like, remember that thing that Caroline said? You're not doing it?

Speaker 1 38:07

Well, you know, very often, I will talk to a young man like this and I'll say and and I already know your answer and I was seriously impressed. Do you know if your mother has gone through menopause.

Speaker 2 38:25

Yes.

Speaker 1 38:26

Yes.

Speaker 2 38:26

She has.

Speaker 1 38:27

But how many men, how many of your friends know the answer to that?

Speaker 2 38:34

Very few. And and to be honest

Speaker 1 38:36

And are they interested?

Speaker 2 38:38

No. And and to be honest, I also may have not given, like, had had we not been actively involved in the whole health and treatment of my mom?

Speaker 1 38:48

Right.

Speaker 2 38:48

So I, you know, I'd like to say I'm the mature one, but that may also not be the case.

Speaker 1 38:54

It's mature. It's a game being interested. Yeah. And not just in your mom, but your wife will go through that.

Speaker 2 39:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1 39:03

So a young man will say, well, how do I know that my girlfriend I mean, you can't just turn around to your girlfriend sale. I think your perimenopause or machine. Come here if you say that. But perimenopause can start at thirty seven.

Speaker 2 39:18

So you said peri

Speaker 1 39:20

Peri menopause. This is before the menopause.

Speaker 2 39:22

Okay.

Speaker 1 39:22

So it's ten years before menopause. You can start these symptoms. So we start acting weird. We women start acting weird. But we our hormones are doing very odd things.

Speaker 2 39:36

Yeah. And

Speaker 1 39:39

It's not not many good things. So if you can kind of understand that we do some really -- Yeah. -- weird things sometimes we don't really know

Speaker 2 39:49

what we're doing. Yeah. I

Speaker 1 39:53

But we'll hopefully come back to normal at some point.

Speaker 2 39:55

Yeah. The the most, like, tangible advice that I have begrudgingly and it's taken time for me to also teach this to myself is, I'm a very solution oriented person. And there was this I don't know if it was a meme or a video or something someone shared with me was, you said, are you in the solution oriented mindset or the emotion oriented mindset? And it's, you know, in a funny way, it's like, oh, someone comes up to you and they're, you know, talking about a problem they're facing. And that was the response that was given back to them. And it's interesting because my response to some woman or anyone for that matter coming to me with a problem is, alright, let's figure out a solution.

Speaker 1 40:38

But positive.

Speaker 2 40:39

But not everybody wants a solution right away?

Speaker 1 40:42

No. They wouldn't you get in the hole with them and feel blood, herbal --

Speaker 2 40:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1 40:49

-- until they're ready to get out -- Yeah. -- and you can get out with them.

Speaker 2 40:52

And and that's been a time in my relationships in the past where it's like, Oh, let let let just solve it. It's like, no. No. No. I I feel closer to you. Close. Yeah. I feel closer to you. I feel like we're connected if you were feeling what I'm feeling first. And then we can work on the solution together. So it's it's been it's been a process for me to just listen. And in that process, I start to understand. And I understand slowly but surely an element of the things you're talking about that the woman or the person or the friend is going through?

Speaker 1 41:23

Yeah. Because she's gonna say to you, you don't understand and you're thinking that I kinda do. And you say no, but you don't don't understand. I'm telling you. Yeah. Yeah. You can be a very good husband.

Speaker 2 41:39

That means that my

Speaker 1 41:40

son's gonna be a good husband too. Yeah. I do. Because he listens to some of my podcasts. My my insta lives. Mhmm. So you know it's all about menopause, crazy women Yeah. No. That's that's awesome.

Speaker 2 41:56

How how are the kids doing?

Speaker 1 41:58

Great.

Speaker 2 41:58

Firstly, congratulations. On Mimi's fabulous wedding?

Speaker 1 42:02

It was the best. She looked more beautiful than I could have imagined and it was just perfect, although it rained all week. We we had been looking at the weather forecast in Rome. Yeah. The the week before, and it's a twenty seven, twenty eight, all week. Suddenly the gray clouds came out, and it rained every day. And we're talking torrential rain.

Speaker 2 42:26

Even on the wedding itself? Even on the wedding day.

Speaker 1 42:29

So we're looking on the wedding day, and it's saying rain two, three, four PM. And then rain three four five, and the wedding was at four thirty. So you can imagine many tears. Mhmm. And the the electric guys doing the disco and what have you sorry, lost my train of thought. They wanted to know by seven o'clock in the morning of the wedding if they were still gonna be outside.

Speaker 2 42:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1 42:58

But I don't know. The weather forecast has rained something. But it might not rain. What if it doesn't rain? So yeah. The music ended up being inside, and it did rain torrential. All the all the tables being put outside, they were all taken back in, and then they were all brought out while we were having the ceremony. Mhmm. And the rainbow came out Oh, I

Speaker 2 43:20

know the perfect time too.

Speaker 1 43:21

Yeah. They moved the the wedding by an hour.

Speaker 2 43:24

Okay.

Speaker 1 43:25

And it was so incredible.

Speaker 2 43:28

And You must feel so proud.

Speaker 1 43:30

So proud. And Kyle is he's an he's he's just David and Kyle can finish each other's sentences.

Speaker 2 43:39

That's perfect

Speaker 1 43:40

to come one more than that.

Speaker 2 43:41

And they live here in Dubai as well?

Speaker 1 43:43

They do just down the road from us.

Speaker 2 43:46

That's perfect.

Speaker 1 43:47

I know. And Max is in London. Mhmm. Lot of stag dues going on at the moment.

Speaker 2 43:53

How often does he come back?

Speaker 1 43:54

It's dropping like flies. As often as he can -- Yeah. -- to probably twice a year. And we try and go back -- Yeah. -- to because we must Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:06

I can imagine.

Speaker 1 44:07

But Dave's gonna see him in Finland in August.

Speaker 2 44:12

Nice. Love.

Speaker 1 44:13

Lucky lucky him.

Speaker 2 44:15

I wanna end up by playing a little game with you. Oh. It's still more questions based, but it's it's a set of question. We can basically pick a card and then You answer one of them? And then either I answered as well or you have me pick I'm

Speaker 1 44:31

on my reading glasses on.

Speaker 2 44:32

I can read it for you. All you do is the picking. And then

Speaker 1 44:37

Where do where where are these cops?

Speaker 2 44:39

This is called the meaning of life. Oh. Have you heard of something called we're not really strangers?

Speaker 1 44:45

Nope.

Speaker 2 44:45

Okay. If you like this, I'll see if we can get you one. But Okay. Stick a card. If you want, I can read it for you.

Speaker 1 44:59

Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 45:03

Who's disapproval do you most fear? And is the fear justified?

Speaker 1 45:07

Davos, for sure. You know, I I've always been one of those people who lies in bed and worries about something that I've said.

Speaker 2 45:20

Sam Zies.

Speaker 1 45:21

Did sorry?

Speaker 2 45:22

Sam Zies. Sam Zies. Sam Zies. Yes.

Speaker 1 45:24

And and I don't need to. But I do. I I mean, it can be the silliest thing. It's not even important. And David also, do you think that person's thinking about that conversation? No. Probably not. Well, then why are you thinking about it? Yeah. But, yeah, if he says, you shouldn't have said that, then I know. I mean, trouble. So yes, for sure. Yeah. I respect him deeply, and he is totally grounding and normal and liked by people he's a really good guy, so we'd have to be digging. But by you,

Speaker 2 46:08

my dad, without a doubt, my dad. Wow. He is I would say in every way he's a good guy, but he is incredibly strategic and calculated in everything he does.

Speaker 1 46:25

Does that mean he doesn't have emotion?

Speaker 2 46:27

No. He has he has emotion. But that's a really, really good question. I think he is still very strategic of when he shows emotion. And that doesn't necessarily mean it's it's a fake emotion, but he knows that like, when is it relevant or beneficial or okay to share emotion? And what are the times where It's not serving any goal or it's not moving something forward.

Speaker 1 46:55

You should imagine being like that.

Speaker 2 46:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1 46:57

I can't.

Speaker 2 46:59

Yeah. I mean, it it really works well for him and he loves it, which is why there's, like, initially, I used to try to put some, like, value to it. I was like, oh, well, I wish you'd express your emotions more and be more open about them. But I realized that that's who he is and he does well because if any he's good, any any loves being smart about that. And he doesn't feel like suppressing He doesn't feel like he's suppressing anything. It's just, hey, this emotion is not Maybe I feel it, but this is not the outlet. That's the right way to let it out for me and for the people around me. And along with that strategic and calculated mindset around everything he does, there is a a wisdom that I always see in him. So whenever he says something or he advises me on something as an input on something, whether or not I believe it myself consciously, I subconsciously put a heavy weight on

Speaker 1 47:48

it. Right.

Speaker 2 47:50

Which at times has held me back. Yeah. Yeah. Or it's it's made it harder to take a risky move that It's not that he doesn't approve at it, but he just says, well, you know, maybe you wanna take this option instead of this. So so it's been it's been a process to, like, because I do want the approval, but also as a as a young man, you have to step out from under your dad's head.

Speaker 1 48:16

Understood. Yeah. Yeah. Quite hard when you have when you you have that figure.

Speaker 2 48:22

Yeah. Yeah. And that's especially been an interesting dynamic for me to navigate. Being closer to home because And

Speaker 1 48:29

you appreciate it more as your older understanding him?

Speaker 2 48:34

Yes. Yes. Yes. And I don't know how far I've talked much about this, but the last six, seven months being close to my parents, it's the first amount of time we've spent together as adults. I've got to see them at their best and their worst because in the past, I was with them until I was eighteen and a half, which at that point they were still just parents in my

Speaker 1 48:56

So do you see them as individuals now?

Speaker 2 48:58

Yes. Very, very much so. And they've also grown in many ways. One beautiful thing is I've made my good share of mistakes along the last six, seven months, you know, taking risk, putting myself out there. And they've always said, no matter what we'll support you and we believe in what you're doing. And that has definitely been a major shift in their perspective. So, yeah, I'm I'm appreciative of them. I'm proud of them. And, yeah, it's great to have them around.

Speaker 1 49:26

Yeah. I would I I'm I'm not really close and my father isn't around, but I would have liked to have had. A relationship -- Mhmm. -- with my parents like that.

Speaker 2 49:42

Mom moms around

Speaker 1 49:44

My lawyers. Yeah. Yeah. She was at the wedding.

Speaker 2 49:46

Okay. Great. Great. Yeah. Are you close with her?

Speaker 1 49:49

No. Not really. Mhmm. Not really. Old old relationship really. I couldn't wait to get away from home when I was seventeen --

Speaker 2 50:00

Yeah.

Speaker 1 50:00

-- and traveled Australia for a year, the state's for a year, sorts of things -- Yeah. -- but an independent person that way. So, yeah, no.

Speaker 2 50:12

Yeah. Yeah. I've I mean, it's interesting. I've seen I guess, I'm not even thinking about, like, whether it's on the pod or not anyways.

Speaker 1 50:21

Yeah. It's But but I think the kids are close. Yeah. I'm really happy that they kids are close to us and we're all very tactile and -- Yeah. -- you know, I adore them to bits and I think I show them that they are adored. And -- Yeah. -- Max sent me flowers when I hit five hundred thousand on Instagram. Remember how cute is

Speaker 2 50:42

That's amazing.

Speaker 1 50:44

I'm very unexpected, but -- Yeah. -- yeah. He just sent in the old message saying, well done, I watched your pop your instead state was great. Yeah. So

Speaker 2 50:53

We go cone back around it. It's it's the intention that counts. Right? Because it tells you that he is at least once a day, he's checking, oh, what's mom doing? What's the most recent thing she's passionate about that she's put out into the world? Yeah. And that's that's a learning for me too is, like, listening to my mom and seeing, you know, yeah, seeing seeing simulations.

Speaker 1 51:14

Time of terror is very precious. I'm sure.

Speaker 2 51:16

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 51:20

Yeah. You're a good son and you're gonna be a great husband.

Speaker 2 51:24

Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 51:25

Like, coronation.

Speaker 2 51:27

Fingers crossed, it comes true. I'm excited. Good. Caroline, this has been an absolute pleasure. Podcast or not, like, this this has been a very insightful and, I don't know, warm conversation for me and I hope it was for you.

Speaker 1 51:40

Well, you, I think, are pretty nice warm human and it shows same fun. I think we could just keep talking.

Speaker 2 51:52

Oh, hundred percent.

Speaker 1 51:55

We hadn't even touched on our exercise routines. That's another story.

Speaker 2 51:59

Oh, man. We can talk a lot about that, but the insight that I got from you has already been incredible.

Speaker 1 52:06

Well, thank you.

Speaker 3 52:09

Thanks for listening. Leave us a review. Tell us what you think. Find us at instagram, bale four dot pod. If you know someone who wants to be on the show you wanna be on the show, give us a shout. DM us. We'll see you soon.